Dietrich Bonhoeffer: The Cost of Discipleship Costly Grace, The Call to Discipleship 43 - 78 Instigator: Jon

Sections: Costly Grace, The Call to Discipleship

Jon, your up. Please instigate by commenting on this post.

The Cost of Discipleship Cover to page 39 Instigator: John

Okay, a few ground rules.

Every two weeks I will put an entry out here for that session of discussion. Then by the specified date the instigator should put his thoughts out there as a comment to the entry. (This is the first entry.)

Etiquette:
We have some diverse opinions in our group. It is important to be respectful of all perspectives. Obviously no personal attacks. It is great to give differing views just be respectful in presentation. Remember on-line statements may sound more harsh than in person. So, bear that in mind. Rather than saying "I think you are wrong" in response you may want to say something like "you make an interesting point. However, I look at it this way." Definitely you should not say something like "anyone who thinks that way should die a thousand deaths." or something like that. Finally, one the reverse side of things also remember that on line communication can sound harsher than intended. So please take any responses in the most positive light.

Schedule of Instigation

Hopefully the schedule below is self explanitory. (I will change it if someone drops out.)

Instigator: John
Pages: 0 - 42
Sections: Cover, Also Available from Simon & Schuster, Various Notes on the Publication, Table of Contents, Memoir, Introduction.
Instigation Deadline: EOD - 1/19/09
Response Deadline: EOD - 1/21/09

Instigator: Jon
Pages: 43- 78
Sections: Costly Grace, The Call to Discipleship
Instigation Deadline: EOD - 2/2/09
Response Deadline: EOD - 2/4/09

Instigator: Thomas
Pages: 79 - 101
Sections: Single Minded Obedience, Discipleship and the Cross
Instigation Deadline: EOD - 2/16/09
Response Deadline: EOD - 2/18/09

Instigator: Eric
Pages: 105 - 139
Sections: The Beatitudes, The Righteousness of Christ, The Brother, Women, Truthfulness
Instigation Deadline: EOD - 3/9/09
Response Deadline: EOD - 3/11/09

Instigator: Matt
Pages: 140 - 172
Sections: Revenge, The Enemy - the "Extraordinary", The Hidden Righteousness, The Hiddenness of Prayer, The Hiddenness of the Devout Life.
Instigation Deadline: EOD - 3/23/09
Response Deadline: EOD - 3/25/09

Instigator: Gil
Pages: 173 - 197
Sections: The Simplicity of the Carefree Life, The Disciple and Unbelievers, The Great Divide, The Conclusion
Instigation Deadline: EOD - 4/20/09
Response Deadline: EOD - 4/22/09

Instigator: John
Pages: 201 - 221
Sections: The Harvest, The Apostles, The Work, The Suffering of the Messangers, The Decision, The Fruit
Instigation Deadline: EOD - 5/4/09
Response Deadline: EOD - 5/6/09

Instigator: Thomas
Pages: 223 - 247
Sections: Preliminary Questions, Baptism, The Body of Christ,
Instigation Deadline: EOD - 5/18/09
Response Deadline: EOD - 5/20/09

Instigator: Eric
Pages: 248 - 271
Sections: The Visible Community
Instigation Deadline: EOD - 6/3/09
Response Deadline: EOD - 6/5/09

Instigator: Gil
Pages: 272 - 317
Sections: The Saints, The Image of Christ, Index of Subjects, Index of Biblical References, Other Books by Bonhoeffer.
Instigation Deadline: EOD - 6/17/09
Response Deadline: EOD - 6/19/09

Book Club

Jon, Eric, Thomas, Matt, Dad (Gil),

You are invited (commanded) to participate in a cyber book club. (When you say that really emphasize the word “cyber.” Make it loud with a little vibrato and maybe try to simulate an echo effect.) The book club will work like this. We will each take a couple weeks to read part of the book selection revealed below and then we will each take turns kicking off an on-line discussion. For each round of discussion the kicker-offer, let’s call them the instigator, will post their thoughts and the others will take time to respond to the reading and the instigators thoughts. We’ll have a different instigator every two weeks with a specific passage to cover. We will adjust things as needed as we see how things go.

There will be no tea and scones.

A message to the hundreds and thousands of other people who visit this blog every hour. Please, don’t feel left out. Even if you are not on the schedule as an instigator you are invited to contribute as long as you keep it civil and clean. And please don’t visit the blog more than 5 or 6 times a day. We don’t want to bring the server down.

The book we will be reading is –rumpupumpumpumpumpumpum- (That’s a drum roll sort of like from the little drummer boy.)

The Cost of Discipleship by Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

Link on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Cost-Discipleship-Dietrich-Bonhoeffer/dp/0684815001/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1229392552&sr=8-2

We will officially start after the first of the year and I will post a schedule for who is to be the instigator when. I’ll call it the Schedule of Instigation.

Just to get the concept started please post a comment indicating you plan to do this. I suggest something like, “I’m in.” Make it cool like they might do it on Ocean’s Eleven or the Gum Ball Rally.

I will post a comment as a sample.

And no. I’m sorry. No scones or tea.

Population Density

There is a lot of discussion these days regarding resource utilization by the human race and sustainable consumption. Jared Diamond wrote a book related to this called Collapse in which he explores the reasons some societies succeed and others fail. Reading this made me think about how many people could be sustained on earth on an on going basis and not exhaust our resources.

To start with let me say I have no idea. Also, there are a lot of factors which should be dealt with to make an accurate prediction of a sustainable world population level for humans and I’m not sure such a thing is even possible. But out of curiosity I thought it would be interesting to compare some population levels just to get a feel for whether or not there is any hope for us at current population levels.

First let’s look at Easter Island. It’s a tiny Island in the South Pacific about 63 square miles in area and 100s of miles from anything else except water. To put that in context that’s about twice as large as Manhattan. This is the Island where the funky statues where built that are featured in movies and cartoons that have scenes on remote tropical islands. At one point Easter Island supported a relatively successful society that was able to be productive and innovative enough to produce big funky statues. Eventually they chopped down all their trees (primary natural resource) and their society and population collapsed. Some folks estimate that the high water mark for Easter Island population was around 20,000. (I think others think it could have been higher.) That’s a population density of 122 people per km2. So, 122 people per km2 might be too many to sustain; at least on a small island with limited access to resources not immediately on the island. (Note the parallel between Easter Island and Earth in general.)

Next let’s look at Haiti. This is another island nation one could argue has failed as a society. It is not as remote or small as Easter Island. It has a population of around 9 million and about 316 people per km2. So, I guess 316 people per km2 is too many to sustain.

Interestingly the UK, yet another Island nation only with several hundred years of relative success, has about 256 km2. Hmm. Maybe the world could support this level of population density. Of course one might argue that part of the reason that the UK can support that level of population is because they use a lot of resources from other locals. For the world, we have not figured out a means of harvesting resources out side of our “little” ball. So we may not want to just assume the 256 km2 is a sustainable population level.

Now for the United States. The United States has about 33 people per km2. Much lower than any of the other societies noted and even though the U. S. is highly integrated with the World economy as is United Kingdom and we have a lot of issues we seem to be humming along pretty well and it would seem that we could sustain our society for some time as long as we solved some problems like securing sustainable fuel sources and global warming and fixing unsustainable entitlement programs like Social Security in its current form. So, our world might not be able to sustain 100, 200, or 300 plus people per km2. But maybe 33 people per km2 is doable.

Finally, the whole world has about 45 people per km2. Now this is a ridiculously simplistic analysis if it can even be considered analysis but the conclusion I draw from this is that our current population is not at such a level that we are destined to a major failure. If it where above like 100 km2 then I think you could say we are definitely in trouble. But our current population might be manageable. We probably don’t want to have it grow a whole lot and we do have big problems to solve but there is still hope that the world population can survive and thrive at current levels.

http://www.apj.co.uk/rapanui/display_article.asp?specifier=history

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ha.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasper_County,_Iowa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Island

Creeds

Football and Volleyball have taken me away from my blog but I’m back. At least for now.

The following is the Nicene Creed

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

http://www.creeds.net/ancient/nicene.htm

Below is a quote from Milton Friedman

A liberal is fundamentally fearful of concentrated power. His objective is to preserve the maximum degree of freedom for each individual separately that is compatible with one man’s freedom not interfering with other men’s freedom. He believes that this objective requires that power be dispersed. He is suspicious of assigning to government any functions that can be performed through the market, both because this substitutes coercion for voluntary co-operation in the area in question and because, by giving government an increased role, it threatens freedom in other areas.

From Capitalism and Freedom, Milton Freidman page 39

I consider myself to be a Christian but at some levels I find it easier to whole heartedly endorse the quote by Milton Freidman than I do the Nicene creed.

What do others think? Is Milton Freidman’s statement of belief more meaningful more worthy of adherence than the Nicene creed? Why or why not?

This is how to approach life

Interview of Dr. Ishwar Puri

Partition Iraq

I believe that the best way to bring peace and stability to Iraq may be to partition it into three separate countries.

Consider the parallels between the former Yugoslavia and Iraq. Yugoslavia was made up of a variety of ethnic and religious groups including Catholic, Orthodox, Muslim, Serb, Croat, Albanian, etc. Iraq is of course made up primarily of Kurds, Sunnis, and Shiites. Both in recent times where held together by totalitarian regimes. Both during their history for various political reasons have had their ethnic groups intermixed. And both after a disruption in the status quo devolved into horrible ethnic violence.

For now the nations and provinces of the former Yugoslavia are in relative peace. After trying to hold Yugoslavia together for years the outside brokers decided implement a plan of breaking it up into smaller countries and semiautonomous regions in an orderly fashion and for now there is relative peace in this part of the world.

Facilitating an orderly partitioning of Iraq may be the best option for peace there as well.

Some arguments against this:

1 - Many people would be forced to give up there homes and move. This is already happening at a rate of about 50,000 per month at gun point and with no compensation for the loss of people’s homes and property. If this were handled in an orderly fashion people could be compensated for the home’s they are leaving and that money could be used to help them get started in more friendly environs.

2 – One of our allies, Turkey, is against it. We should never take lightly the concerns of allies. At the same time our leaders should consider all options and if Turkey is the only reason we would not do what might be the best thing to solve the problems in Iraq, I think we would all agree that Turkey’s concerns should not stop us.

More research and thought should be given before implementing a plan like this. It may not be the right answer. However, it is an option that deserves serious consideration and we should challenge our leaders to consider this as perhaps the best way to work out of the Iraq situation.

http://www.internal-displacement.org/8025708F004CE90B/(httpCountries)/718916EEB6743EEF802570A7004CB9B9?OpenDocument

http://www.brookings.edu/views/op-ed/ohanlon/20070108.htm

More on Immigration

At least two items should be addressed in new immigration policy.

First, we need to make it easer for workers (not free loaders or criminals) to come to America to work legally. WHY: Our economy needs the workers.

We have around 5 million unemployed. With between 8 and 20 million illegal immigrants guessed to be in the country we definitely don’t have the legal workers to fill those gaps. So, we need a policy in place that allows all the workers coming to America to fill jobs to do so legally with out a lot of hassles.

Second, all new legal worker immigrants should be on a path to citizenship involving learning English and our constitution and history. This will insure that our citizens continue to value freedom, democracy, and the rule of law. Learning of English will allow them to more easily assimilate into our society and will insure that we continue to be a single language society. This path to citizenship should not take more than 2 to 5 years. Anyone not willing to embrace core American values and become citizens should go back home and make room for someone who is. WHY: As we all know the baby boomers are nearing retirement and as a percentage we will have fewer people working as compared to those in retirement than we have had historically. This is a problem for funding social security. Having a robust immigration program leading to new citizens who have bought into the American values can help address some looming fiscal issues and insure America stays strong for years to come.

Two Side Notes:

Securing the Boarders: Once we have a rationalized (or as we are rationalizing) immigration policy which allows the workers we need to come here legally we should make sure the borders are secure. So, that the criminal element does not enter our country.

Amnesty: If someone is in our country illegally they should not get a free pass. They should have to pay a fine of some sort or do community service. Once they have paid their fine they should be allowed to participate in the legal work program that leads to citizenship.

God and Addiction

God doesn’t care about addiction it self. He is not concerned abut the drinking or gambling or eating or smoking or drugs and the abuse of these things that comes with addiction. What he cares about is the damage our fixation on these things does to our relationships when we are addicted to them. For example: if my gambling addiction causes me to loose money so that I don’t have the money to take my kid to the baseball game or my wife out to eat, then I am not loving the way I should. This is the real big deal with God. (Love thy neighbor as they self.) This damage to the important relationship is what God does not like. He doesn’t mind so much if we enjoy gambling once in a while but he doesn’t like it if it damages our relationships. The danger can be even more subtle but just as damaging. You may have won money but if you stayed up so late you decided to sleep in instead of taking you son fishing, then you are still impacting your relationship. Or if you spend so much time fishing that you don’t have time to take your daughter to the movies, then fishing could be the problem. Anything that puts our important relationships at risk God hates.